12. Working for Change -- A Survivor's Story

TW: Sexual assault

In today's episode of What Compassion Accomplishes, Cory and Chris talk with TL Robinson, survivor, CEO and speaker. They discuss the stigma and trauma associated with sexual assault, and TL shares how her experience as a survivor motivated her to create an app that allows sexual assault survivors (and supporters and advocates) to share their experiences in a safe community.

If you or someone you care about have experienced domestic, dating or sexual violence please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or one of the WCA's 24-hour hotlines at 208-343-7025 or 208-345-7273.

Follow us on social media!
@wca_boise

For more information and resources, check out these websites!
wcaboise.org
lovisrespect.org

To learn more and download TL's app, visit https://getontheup.com/

Want to hear a specific topic? Contact us at outreach@wcaboise.org

Transcript

Intro: 0:01

Welcome to what compassion accomplishes, a podcast dedicated to sharing information, ideas and resources about domestic abuse and sexual assault. The topics discussed in this podcast--including survivor stories, supportive services, and domestic abuse or sexual violence--can be difficult and we urge you to listen with care. Our hosts are not licensed counselors or mental health professionals. If you or someone you care about have experienced domestic, dating, or sexual violence, please call the WCA's 24 hour hotline at 208-343-7025 or the National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233. You can also find more resources in the description of this podcast.

Cory Mikhals: 0:53

Welcome once again to another edition of what compassion accomplishes. I'm Cory Michaels, along with Chris Davis with the WCA, and this one is a very powerful episode.

Chris Davis: 1:05

Hey, Cory, thank you for co hosting today and having us here today. I always appreciate when you join us to help out with this what compassion accomplishes podcast. We cover a lot of topics, and I think today is a really special one and we've got a very special guest. And I'm excited and hope that we have a lot of folks who listen and get something special out of this.

Cory Mikhals: 1:37

Yes, Today we have with us CEO, speaker and survivor, TL Robinson with us. How are you? TL?

TL Robinson: 1:47

I'm well, thank you for having me today. I really appreciate it.

Cory Mikhals: 1:50

Absolutely. Well, I know when we first talked to you about a month or so ago, and we were chatting about everything, and, you know, your very, very powerful story, what brought you to creating GOTU, which is an incredible app that we're gonna get into here coming up in the in just a moment. But let's start with where you are. Where is home?

TL Robinson: 2:16

Home is on the east coast in North Carolina for me right now.

Cory Mikhals: 2:19

That's right.

TL Robinson: 2:22

I really like it, you can get rural, metropolitan, a little bit in between, so it's really nice.

Cory Mikhals: 2:29

You get that southern hospitality. And my problem is, I'd probably weigh about 350 pounds if I lived there, because I just eat my way through the states, all through the Carolinas.

TL Robinson: 2:39

Yeah, it's a very possible thing to happen, so you have to be careful.

Cory Mikhals: 2:44

Now, what kind of brought--you know, whatever you're comfortable with talking about--what brought you now to where TL Robinson is today, and this incredible app GOTU G,O,T,U that we're gonna talk more about here in just a moment. I mean, you started out as what, a 15 year or so career leading multi million dollar projects and fortune 500 companies and all of that, what brought you to now?

TL Robinson: 3:16

Yeah, so that was my background. I was in corporate America, I thought I would start and retire in corporate America, didn't necessarily see myself starting my own company or as an entrepreneur in this way. But unfortunately, I am a rape survivor. And after going through that horrible situation and trying to stand myself back up, I realized that there's a big gap or multiple gaps that are very noticeable for sexual assault survivors. And then going a little further to any type of you know, abuse survivors, there are gaps in resources; if you don't have readily available support who is knowledgeable about available resources; if you don't have money to get you access to certain resources like therapy, you know--mental therapy, physical therapy, because the toll it takes on your mind and your body--that you have less of a chance of really getting to a solid survivorship journey. Being in that space and utilizing my background in technology in the spaces from corporate American and leading projects, I realized that this is something that needed to be solved. For, if we think about the statistics of one in six men and now one in three women, that's a little over 20% of the world population. If we look at that, you know statistics in the 7 billion people that are on the planet right now, that's about 1.4 billion people that are suffering, that are survivors.

Cory Mikhals: 4:53

It's a tragic number.

TL Robinson: 4:54

You're right, and for that number to be so big, for sex crimes and in other abuses to be so prevalent, it was just shocking to me that the resources, or the process for transitioning from a victim to a survivor, just wasn't solid. It wasn't what it needed to be. To give you an example, after being assaulted and going to the hospital, there's things that happen at the hospital that people just don't have insights to, there are obstacles there that can prevent people from going through the necessary process to get solid treatment to make sure that they don't come up with any type of illnesses or an unwanted pregnancy. Reporting to the police is a very--can be a traumatizing experience as well. And if you don't have the right support or knowledge, there are obstac;es there that can prevent people from from reporting. I will also share that I was assigned an advocate, and this was the catalyst for me that that got me to the place of things need to change. I had an advocate who said she would check on me and call and she didn't. So going through the emotions, going through the shock, and being by myself in that moment, because I still couldn't put the words together that this horrible thing was done to me, and then to have someone assigned to me to help me and not show up for me and be there for me; it put me into a tailspin.

Cory Mikhals: 6:23

I can only imagine.

TL Robinson: 6:25

It wasn't until I told the first person that I found out that this person in my life was also a survivor of sexual assault, and knew what to do. And if it wasn't for this one person, I don't think I would have made it. For me, it was things need to need to go through a drastic, drastic change. And that's the start of how we got to the idea of GOTU and launch and GOTU and really being an advocate for change in this space for survivors.

Cory Mikhals: 6:52

Well, we talked about this many times on different episodes, Chris, about how, you know, so many survivors, they may survive that event, but not really; you know, it haunts them forever and it puts them in a place of just being stuck, and they can't be able to move anywhere because they don't know what to do. And they don't have the capacity to be able to get back past this horrific situation. And without the right services out there, then, you know--just like you, if you hadn't spoken out to your friend, you don't know where you would have been.

Chris Davis: 7:32

Right. Yeah, long term trauma, as I think you probably know, you know, can last a lifetime and have an impact of a lifetime. It's not just that, you know, one experience. And I think we know that, that the services (and, you know, they, they vary from area to area, and I'm not sure where you were at the time whether it was and it doesn't really matter, you know, from big city, Metro to rural, and the connection between, you know, the public services to the community based services and the connections and even within some of the stronger organizations, sometimes connections fall, and then that it) can have such a significant traumatizing long term impact on the victim, like you say, and so, you know, where do changes need to be made, where do things need to be tightened up, right? I know a lot of spacew because of, right, the #metoo movement, and some of the some of the things that are even happening now. I know that it is sparking a lot of conversations. But where are the gaps, right? between the community based services? Where are the gaps between the public services, where are the gaps between rural, and where funding falls, and which we between the services, I can tell you those are conversations that happen, where I am at, like on almost a daily basis. And, so I am looking at this app, and I think it looks pretty darn amazing. And, I want to save something before we started recording, you said you had almost 500 downloads without even doing any marketing.

TL Robinson: 9:11

Yeah.

Chris Davis: 9:12

That is word of mouth. That's incredible to me. I mean, that just to me is telling of the need, like you said for people who need support. Also, I think that's pretty telling for people who need support, who may not want to speak out and ask for help. Because I think that also might be a lot something that a lot of survivors experience that they don't want to tell anybody about what happened. They don't want to, they don't even know where to ask for help. Like all of our services. I mean, we're you know, we're based in Idaho, right. We're nonprofit, we'll help anybody who calls her hotline, but if they want more; all of our services are virtual now but still, you know somebody across where you're at may not think to call a number in Boise, Idaho and know that they could qualify for, you know, a virtual zoom, you know, counseling session. They could, now, but they may not be in a place to even think to Google and find our website to call that hotline, right. There's so much shame and trauma associated with that, even reaching out. So you know, I want to say, I have never spoken to you before, but I'm so proud of you for sharing with someone, because that takes so much energy and courage to be able to put yourself out there that vulnerability to share with somebody about what happened to you. So many people just don't do that. They live with it. And it is, you know, I can be on the outside looking in and saying, you didn't do anything wrong, you did nothing wrong. But it still doesn't break through to that, you know, that wall of that shame and living with it. And it just breaks my heart

Cory Mikhals: 11:01

Yeah

Chris Davis: 11:01

that you talk about billions of people that live with this, you know, every minute of every day, and I applaud you for stepping up and using your talents and resources to try to do something about that and create something for people like this. I think it's so commendable. I just applaud you.

TL Robinson: 11:24

Thank you for that. And I will say that it's not me, I was raised to, to speak up if something just does not feel right. And I will tell you the moment there are two moments in my life, that helped me say something when this happened. One, I never thought this would ever happen to me--especially the person who did it--never saw it coming, and that's where additional devastation comes. But I remember when I was younger, there was an episode of The Oprah Winfrey Show where she first talked about being molested as a child. And the message was, you know, the end of that it was not her fault, that anyone going through it, it was not their fault that when they feel safe and comfortable to speak about it, they can start the process of moving forward. And I remember that from childhood. And it was such mature content, but my mother had my sister and I sit down and watch that show. And the second thing was I remember Anita Hill testifying on Capitol Hill about being sexually harassed. And what she went through in the message and the takeaway from that was, these things happen, and people may not believe you, but the courage to use your voice and help other people and help yourself at the same time, just stuck with me so deeply. And those were the two moments that got me to a place of this is wrong, this is wrong, I don't know what words to use. I feel like I'm drowning in this situation, but I have to say something, and not be worried about how artful the messages is. I just have to get this out and start going somewhere. And I really think that those two moments helped me say something to this person that helped get me to therapy, to get me up and moving forward to work and ultimately tell my family and be supported and loved and have a better survivorship journey.

Chris Davis: 13:10

That's amazing. It is those two moments. Wow. And then I want to say something really quickly just to acknowledge you saying that you never thought that person would do that to you. Eight out of 10 rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, right? Eight out of 10. So while I don't want to discount the experiences of people who are sexually assaulted or raped by a stranger because that does happen, but eight out of 10 rapes are committed by somebody known. So it's a family member. It's an acquaintance. It's somebody that they're going on a date with--eight out of 10. And that is, that's a myth that we have been raised with our society is that it's in a dark alley by a stranger.

Cory Mikhals: 13:51

No, I was just talking with Detective Weeks yesterday, retired Detective Weeks. And she was saying that it's actually very rare for it to be a stranger incident.

Chris Davis: 14:04

And that's a stat from the RAINN.org. So you can look up and find a lot of more stats, anybody listening. And so that makes it even harder, and a lot more shameful, and you think nobody's gonna believe you. And so that's also, I think, much, very much a contributor of people not speaking out and thinking they won't be believed.

TL Robinson: 14:24

Right!

Chris Davis: 14:25

And so I encourage anybody listening like, if you, if you are going through this, reach out and speak out. And if you're listening to this, and you're not a survivor, and somebody ever reaches out to you and and speaks up, start by believing. Before you say anything, take a breath, take a pause, and believe them. Before you say anything or react. Because you may not want to believe that XYZ person could ever do that. But eight out of 10 times, it is rape or sexual assault is committed by somebody known to the person

TL Robinson: 14:59

Right. Right. And I will say when I spoke out and I finally--because for me, the rage took over. The fact that this happened, it was done by someone I knew that was super close to me that I've known almost my entire life, rage took over. And I think rage fueled me into this process of creating GOTU and communicating and creating this community. And in speaking out, and finally telling extended family and people that he knew, I learned that I am not the only person he's victimized in this way.

Chris Davis: 15:34

So your app, GOTU, let's survive sexual assault together, it anonymously connects survivors for support or advocates, right? So right, so you've got a good technology behind that to keep an anonymous, right? I'm sure you've done your due diligence, I'm not a techie person, but you came from the tech world. That is cool. That is really cool. Anonymously connecting with survivors and supporters; you've had 500 downloads. I want to tell you, I've got some folks in the studio here that are looking at it, and checking it out--some folks that work with us. So that is the coolest thing. So somebody can anonymously download it and get support. And I know that a lot of folks--so we're a community based organization, right? Where, unless there's a child or, you know, an adult who can't speak for themselves comes to us, we're not going to, you know, make people report to the police. If they want to report, we'll walk them through the process. We'll tell them how to do it. But we, you know, we don't, we're not law enforcement, we'll walk them through how to do that. Right. But we don't say, okay, you have to report this to police now. And that's a big difference. We try to educate folks if they want to, we'll help them do it, but they don't have to, we'll explain that. But this just provides that support. And I think that it takes the face-to-face out of it.

TL Robinson: 17:07

Right.

Chris Davis: 17:08

Why do you think that's important?

TL Robinson: 17:11

For a number of reasons. The first one is, there have been studies that have been done in--and I can't cite them specifically, but I can share some links with you on later--that people are tend to be more honest with strangers, people who don't have an already set perception of them. So they they tend to be more honest with people that they don't know, they confide those things in them that that they feel are shameful or may shift the way people think or feel about them. So that's the first reason why it's anonymous. Second, safety, right? People who perpetrate these types of crimes against other people are dangerous people. And we don't know how far beyond this type of crime they're willing to go, especially when they get identified and told on and they can risk losing their livelihood. So safety is the biggest thing. Third is being open. And we all have set biases, right? Not that being racist or prejudiced, but we have certain biases based upon how people sound and how people look. In this space, when it's anonymous and there's no secured identifiable characteristics, you're just talking to another human being; it removes a lot of that bias to where you can just be free to communicate, support, share, nurture, and receive that as well. And those were the three main reasons for keeping it anonymous. And we found that, you know--if survivors want to go in and download and you all want to go in and download--in one of the spaces, especially in the survivor space, you will see people being very well and very honest about where they are emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, or even what has happened to them. And it paints, it allows us to get a better picture of the different types of struggles that survivors have. Because the other reason in creating GOTU is for support for survivors, survivor supporters who were secondary survivors, and also advocates whose job is to deal with trauma every single day in being in those spaces. My team can collect information that we can now go to corporate heads and political leaders and say, here's what's happening, here's the impact. This justifies these proposed changes, and then work to get these changes in place. That's the ultimate goal: to improve the daily lives of survivors.

Cory Mikhals: 19:28

Now T.L., I have to ask you this, just because I'm curious and I'm sure you are gonna have a fabulous answer to it. But like you were saying, the people, the perpetrators, the individuals that will will do these heinous acts, there can be that rage, there can be that revenge, especially if maybe they did, you know, all of a sudden they're feeling they're the ones wronged because the police are knocking on their doorstep, and, you know, taking them to jail. Right?

TL Robinson: 20:04

Right.

Cory Mikhals: 20:04

What prevents some internet troll or some offender from getting on, registering and catfishing a, you know, bio, and then going... I mean, I'm sure there's got to be some type of monitoring that would quickly take care of something like that.

TL Robinson: 20:26

Yeah, right. So I don't want to go into too much detail because I don't want to give away what we have behind the scenes, but I will say that one, we have community guidelines. And these are things that people have to go in and check that "I will not do this, I will not do this, I will not say this." And if they do, that, they're creating an agreement, a legal binding agreement with us that they will not have certain behaviors on this app. If they come in and still continue to have these behaviors, there's ways for us to prevent them from continuing to engage in the app, and then, ultimately, behind the scenes capture specific information that we can then hand over to law enforcement, and then their forensics group can then do what they need to do to identify this person if they've broken any laws, and then forward from there. So yeah, safety all the way around is what I'm

Cory Mikhals: 21:11

I love it. focused on for survivors, I want people to come in. And of Perfect. And like I said, I knew you were going to course, we can't block 100% of those things, it would be great if we do that. But we do have perimeters in place to identify these people, or for the police to identify these people, and have the perfect answer to that. But it was going to be something then prevent them from coming in and continuing to harm survivors. And there's also tools in there where survivors(or survivor supporters o advocates, because there's thre different chatbases in the app) can go in and flag content. Ev n with our team surveying an watching for certain words, w may not catch every single thin, but the community can help s say, "hey, this is inappropria e, this goes against he guidelines, we need you to review it;" our team takes are of that. And then we'll ove forw that, you know, as as someone who would be a survivor, that would be something that I would think about, well, what if, and so that's why I just wanted to wanted you to be able to get that out there and put someone's mind at ease as far as that part goes.

TL Robinson: 22:22

Yeah, thanks for asking that question, and we're continuing to ramp up security. I just had a meeting with our tech resources yesterday, to beef up security, you know, as we think about hacking and things like that, we feel comfortable where we are, but we know we can improve. So improving security and also increasing our features and our functionality is a consistent thing that happens on our side.

Chris Davis: 22:44

And I'm going to assume that this app is available for anyone across the gender spectrum.

TL Robinson: 22:51

Yes.

Chris Davis: 22:52

And is there an age limit?

TL Robinson: 22:55

There is an age limit that was imposed by Apple and Google Play, and it's 17 and older; I'm actually going to start having conversations to see maybe if we can lower that age a little bit. I understand why that age requirement is there because this is very mature content, what they consider mature, but people are being victimized even in infancy.

Chris Davis: 23:20

Teen dating abuse and sexual coercion are a really big deal.

TL Robinson: 23:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Davis: 23:26

But I wanted to get that out there and discuss it. So maybe you can develop a teen version--

Cory Mikhals: 23:30

That's what I was thinking.

Chris Davis: 23:31

separate, modify the app.

Cory Mikhals: 23:32

You know, in all that extra time you have, right T.L.?

Chris Davis: 23:38

We'll have you on again, right, a couple months.

TL Robinson: 23:41

Right, but I think that this is a horrible crime that affects people at different ages, and if we stop thinking about it in a sexual nature or pleasurable sense, then we can lose those restrictions, because that's part of the societal problem. You know, Chris, you talked about the shame earlier, and it's how people are raised. It's how people are thinking about sex crimes as an extension of consensual sex and it's not.

Chris Davis: 24:08

Oh, absolutely.

Cory Mikhals: 24:09

Oh God, no.

Chris Davis: 24:10

They just changed the laws in Idaho, just this past legislative session, to change marital rape, I mean, in 2021.

TL Robinson: 24:22

Yeah, yeah. Think about the FBI definition of sexual assault--didn't change for 50 years. And I think a couple of years ago, that definition was just changed.

Chris Davis: 24:30

Yeah.

TL Robinson: 24:31

Right. So so we have to really be thoughtful about this, and education is really important about what's a sex crime. Like, you can be assaulted even with your clothes on; people don't think of even a slap on the bottom as sexual assault, but it is.

Chris Davis: 24:44

Yes. Any unwanted... yes.

TL Robinson: 24:48

Yeah. Yeah. Right. If someone shows you sexual material and you don't want to see it, that is sexual assault, and we just have to readjust our parameters or where we sit on the spectrum of what's a crime. And that's the biggest thing that you know, the app and community members that are willing to share, allow us to do. Put the information out there, start socializing with people, and then expand our reach, which is what we hope to do next year. So I'm very proud of the people who are coming forward and sharing. I'm very proud of the people who are addressing their survivorship and the victimization. It is very helpful. From a therapeutic sense, it's helped me know that I'm not alone in the world, even though there are people around me who I know have been victimized--and these are people that I've known for years who never say anything until after I came forward--but it's nice to know that there are more people fighting and more people who are wanting change across the globe.

Chris Davis: 25:42

Well, I think there are many people who are victims of sexual assault, child sexual abuse, molestation, who don't even recognize that their experiences cross those lines. Just put those memories away because they're uncomfortable, or they feel responsible in some way. And it takes a, you know, some kind of conversation or something to trigger a thought for them to start unpacking those memories and really start, you know, processing that trauma.

Cory Mikhals: 26:16

Right.

Chris Davis: 26:17

And I think we've started some really good conversations in this country, in the past few years, that are really changing the way we approach those things. But it's going to take, it's going to take a lot and it's going to take people talking about it and having these conversations about what compassion accomplishes, and people listening and starting to have conversations with each other. And that's why it's so important for people like you to come and talk with us.

Cory Mikhals: 26:42

Yeah, absolutely.

Chris Davis: 26:43

And hopefully people listening to this, to start talking to other people and just say, "hey, I heard this thing today. What do you think about it? Let's talk about it."

Cory Mikhals: 26:52

Well, people are finally talking about it. Because there's not I mean, it's still not a comfortable, "hey, you know, let's have a conversation about this." No, but it's not that, that black, hide it somewhere in a closet so that, you know, no one knows. No one wanted to talk about it for years and years and years.

Chris Davis: 27:15

You just didn't. It was a dirty little secret. It happened to your or in your family. Or if there was a mess going on in your home, it was your problem. It was your family. It was your backyard; nobody should be looking in. Even if the police were called, you know, in the 70s and 60s, like this is your marital problem. You figure it out. You know, don't make us come back. We don't want to come back there, you know. But yes, so know those dirty little secrets are not dirty. And they shouldn't be secrets. No, and they're not the children's problem. They're not the person being abused's problem. It's not the victim's problem. They're not choosing those actions. It's the perpetrator's problem. And it's about power and control. It's about the person exerting those actions, and they alone should be held responsible. We should be having these conversations.

TL Robinson: 28:04

Absolutely, absolutely. And we need more people to say those things with that force and energy that you just had to bring that message home. And when we start talking about it publicly, we start talking about all the other aspects of survivorship as you say, you know, for me speaking out and how brave it is. But for me, I have no other choice, I made the choice to survive this. And surviving means that I have to recognize that emotionally, I'm different. Socially, I'm different. What I'm able to do out in the world is different because before I could go ou into a mall, and be fine wit all of those people. And I ju t can't do that now. I can't handle public safety with a lot of people, especially stran ers. I still have difficult being around men. I recentl a few months ago was able to ide in the car with a window do n. And before, I couldn't o that, because I was sca ed that someone would come nto the window. I had that ear. So there's lots of thi gs that happened to us that we a so need to talk about; we need to talk about the chronic pain, we need to talk about some of th eating problems, the digestive roblems that we develop from he stress and anxiety, the hair oss,

Chris Davis: 29:16

PTSD,

TL Robinson: 29:17

all of this-- yes, absolutely. People are suffering, and people think,"oh, I have this pain, I have this soreness or I'm not going to get better." And, it's not something that could be solved by medication, right? All the time. But maybe when we address what happened to us, and we accept it and start to unpack it, those other things can help resolve.

Chris Davis: 29:39

There's a lot of studies that have been

Cory Mikhals: 29:39

Yeah. done--just even recently, in the past three to five years--about the effects, long term effects of trauma. And there's a whole other conversation, but I want to wind us up because I know we've got to get, we're running out of time here because this, you know, is just a quick conversation. I want to say that you came to us because you heard one of our podcasts, and you reached out to be a guest. And I think that is the coolest thing. We've had a couple of survivors now reach out to us. And this is what it's about. This is about having conversations. This is about how we change our culture. Yeah. And the perception in society of survivors.

Chris Davis: 30:20

Yes. And I appreciate you so much for doing this. And I think this has been a great conversation, and I implore anybody else who hears this, I encourage you to reach out to us, because together, this is how we're going to make change, people. This is how we do it. We come together, we share our passions, we have good conversations, and we encourage other people to do the same. Because I do believe that we all can have an impact. I do believe that, or I wouldn't, you know, would have no reason to get out of bed in the morning. You know, I don't know about you, Cory, TL, what do you say we just keep talking? Yeah, and we just keep talking. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening, TL. Thank you so much for reaching out and having the patience with us to schedule across the country--we are across the country, literally 1000s of miles between us. But we can come together and work to change our communities. You know, technology is cool, although it's faulty, sometimes. It's cool. It's super cool.

Cory Mikhals: 31:15

Well, and that's why GOTU is such a great app, it's G O T U, you can also get the links, we'll have all that, and some of the links that that TL had mentioned earlier, we'll put all that in the description so that you have all the information there. So download that today, it just came out. So let's keep that conversation going. And let's continue to make make the strides. I mean, they've been little baby steps. But you know what, as long as we're moving forward in change and in hope, then we're doing okay. But as Chris and TL both said, we need to talk about it. We need to get it out there.

Chris Davis: 31:58

Yep. And I'm going to put out there too. If you are listening and you are needing some help, we're gonna put out the national hotlines out there. If you're local here, we'll throw out the WCA's hotline; it's 208-343-7025. Somebody answers that 24 hours a day, just for information and resources. Anybody can call from anywhere, actually, and somebody will answer that. And, you know, we want folks to know you're not alone. You are not alone. Even if it may feel that way. We just want you to know you're not alone. There's lots of folks out there who have gone down the journey you're going down. If you're not ready to make a decision to leave something, or you're feeling like you are alone in what you're feeling, just know you're not. There are a lot of folks who are probably feeling the very, very similar thing. So just know, there are folks out there. So hang in there. And there is hope.

Cory Mikhals: 32:58

TL, once again, thank you so much. And we look forward to talking to you soon when

Chris Davis: 33:04

Yeah, we'd like we'd like to hear an update from Yeah,

TL Robinson: 33:06

Yeah, that would be great. I have some things in the work. And I'm definitely willing to share, and thank you for having me.

Cory Mikhals: 33:12

Thank you. And thank you for being a part of this edition of what compassion accomplishes.

Intro: 33:19

Thank you for listening to this episode of what compassion accomplishes. Again, if you or someone you know has experienced domestic abuse, dating or sexual violence, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at one 807 99723 are the WC A's 24 hour hotline to 0834370 to five