14. Safety and the College Experience

In this episode, Grace (Fall intern for the WCA) and Emily discuss their experiences at college, what they wish they would have known going in, and what parents should teach their kids.

If you or someone you care about have experienced domestic, dating or sexual violence please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or one of the WCA's 24-hour hotlines (Sexual Assault:  208-345-7273; Domestic Abuse:  208.343.7025).

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For more information and resources, check out our website: wcaboise.org

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Transcript

Intro: 0:01

Welcome to What Compassion Accomplishes, a podcast dedicated to sharing information, ideas and resources about domestic abuse and sexual assault. The topics discussed in this podcast, including survivor stories, supportive services, and domestic abuse or sexual violence can be difficult, and we urge you to listen with care. Our hosts are not licensed counselors or mental health professionals. If you or someone you care about have experienced domestic dating, or sexual violence, please call the WCA's 24 hour hotline at 208-343-7025 or the National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233. You can also find more resources in the description of this podcast.

Cory Mikhals: 0:53

Welcome, and thank you for joining us for another episode of What Compassion Accomplishes. I'm Cory Mikhals along with Chris Davis with the WCA.

Chris Davis: 1:01

Hi, Cory.

Cory Mikhals: 1:02

Hello. And we told you last time that we're going to be going back to college and this this episode of what compassionate accomplishes.

Chris Davis: 1:14

Yeah, it seems like just yesterday I was in college, so you know, not really, but that's okay. Yes, we have a couple of really special guests here with us today Cory. And we have our Jesuit Volunteer Emily joining us again, and she just finished her bachelor's degree. And then we have one of our really amazing interns for this semester who is a senior at Boise State University, Grace.

Cory Mikhals: 1:37

Go Broncos!

Chris Davis: 1:38

Yeah. Oh, wait, go vandals. Wait, we don't have any of those in the house. Anyway, that's okay. I'm from Boise. So you know, you know, I support, there's love for all, right. We are here today to talk about, you know, intimate partner violence, dating abuse and sexual assault on campus. And both of these young folks are passionate about these causes and are involved in some things on campus, but also have some personal experience and personal thoughts on that, and have agreed to come here today to have some really good conversation. I appreciate them being here today. So I'm going to slide my chair back and let Emily here on the mic, Cory, so you can have some conversation I'll jump in if if you need me, but you know, you get to hear my voice often. So I'm gonna let these really smart young people share the air here.

Cory Mikhals: 2:31

Emily, you just graduated and yes, we had a chance to chat a few episodes back when you had first gotten here. And I think only been here a couple of weeks the first time we talked and so now things seem to be going very, very well.

Emily Dehmer: 2:46

Oh, yeah. I'm loving it here.

Cory Mikhals: 2:48

busy doing the outreach and getting out in the community and and spreading the word about the services of the WCA. Now what were you 12 when you graduated?

Emily Dehmer: 3:00

Haha, I was 20.

Cory Mikhals: 3:02

Okay, so still quite young to have graduated and gotten your bachelor's degree, you a little overachiever, which is wonderful. And now, when you are going to college, and you went where, remind me?

Emily Dehmer: 3:22

I went to St. Norbert College in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Cory Mikhals: 3:25

Okay, what was it like, from your perspective, being on campus, and just seeing those kind of the dating and along with that also came the not so great parts with that.

Emily Dehmer: 3:43

Right. I think actually, my university did a really good job for the most part, like during freshman orientation, we had a whole seminar about it. And they were really upfront about it. And I think that was great for me coming from a place like a school that didn't teach anything about consent or any of that. So just to really prepare people and teach individuals who are present is well, you know, that sexual assault, or assault of any kind is not okay and stuff like that. So that was that was really great. I do remember, I think on most college campuses, there's just rumors about you know, don't go to this particular frat party or don't go to this college house because it's going to be roofied and stuff like that. But I was lucky enough to have like, outstanding friends and just I felt super safe on my college campus, which was just a phenomenal feeling. But I know that's not the case for everybody.

Cory Mikhals: 4:53

Right. And now for you being on the BSU campus, you're a senior now, how things been in your perspective here at home?

Grace Erbe: 5:03

I guess I was a freshman in 2018, which, with all the things that have happened in the world seems like a very long time ago, but three years ago, but I do feel like a lot has changed in regards to like the conversation surrounding sexual abuse and sexual assault. And I remember being a freshman coming into it. And it was never really a conversation that I had with my parents talking about sexual abuse and sexual assault. Boise State has every freshman, I believe that they still do this, do an online training. And I remember sitting in my dorm room with a bunch of other girls, and all of us were just sort of talking in on our phones and kind of skipping through it, which, looking back, I wish that I had taken more advantage of the statistics and the resources that they were having us look at in that training, but I think it's really important to to have it in person, like there was no talk of sexual abuse or sexual assault at our orientation, which I think would have been really useful. Because sometimes when there's someone in front of you talking about those things, it can be a little bit more eye-opening and make you feel like oh, I really want to listen to this and pay attention rather than just like an online orientation. And I don't think I was fully prepared for the situations that I was put in as a freshman. I know Boise State is a super safe community, super safe campus, and it can be really easy to say, you know, those things don't happen here because it's so safe, but they are happening and they do happen to a lot of people,

Cory Mikhals: 6:25

Have you seen a change at all in culture in that regard?

Grace Erbe: 6:32

I would say I have seen a little bit of a change and improvements in that regard, especially, you know, last year, we had a lot of sexual assaults happen on our campus, and also off campus. And all the students were getting these very vague emails about it. And it's scary when you're getting emails like that, but you don't have any information of what's going on, or what you know, is surrounding the issue. And I know students were putting some pressure on the university to, you know, talk more about this and have more of an open dialogue and discussion with the students and what we want to see happen on our campus. So I think that they have done a good job, you know, having more of an open discussion about that with students,

Cory Mikhals: 7:09

Ladies, for for both of you, what would you wish you would have known? And that someone who's maybe just started college, wherever that happens to be? What would you like to have known then that maybe you didn't, and had to figure out as you went along?

Grace Erbe: 7:31

I think I wish I would have known, I think you said something similar to this earlier, that knowledge is power. And the more you educate yourself, and the more that you know, it gives you... you know, you can't always control the situations that you're put in or the things that happen to you, but when you have knowledge and you have education about these issues, it gives you the tools to navigate the situation better and you know, maybe reach out for help and feel more comfortable talking about that and feel less of that shame and that guilt surrounding sexual assault and abuse that can happen to survivors when you feel like it's your fault. And you don't have that education that tools to know that it's not your fault.

Cory Mikhals: 8:06

Emily, what about you?

Emily Dehmer: 8:08

Yeah, I guess it's... I have a unique perspective. Lucky isn't the right word. But I was lucky enough to have already been a survivor going into college. So I feel like I I knew a lot of information and kind of how to look out for myself, but again, like sexual assault's never you know a survivor's fault. You can do everything "right" and still be affected by it. But just to touch back on what we were talking about a minute ago, kind of what has changed since being in college. I also started college in 2018, because I graduated a year early. And I saw a lot of change at my institution over those years. Even though we were a small school, it had come out that somebody who is like the head of our board of our college, had been accused of sexual assault. And also multiple people had said that they had come forward to the university--he was the head of our title nine or whatever--they had come forward to our university and had their their stories kind of squashed. And we had a lot of pressure put on the uni... We ended up getting rid of this board member which was for the betterment of the campus, obviously, but our our wonderful president, and I'll just shout him out--President Brian Bruess--there was a lot of pressure on him. Our biggest donor did not agree with the decision to fire--well, I don't know if he was fired but like ask that title nine person to leave--and so they withdrew millions of dollars of funding, but my college did the right thing and stuck by their decision, stuck by our president, even though they knew they would lose that funding. But I am grateful to have gone to a university where it was such an openly talked about thing. I feel like everybody was aware of the resources and knew that information like, like, again, as we had that seminar, introducing us to college. I think that was a great step. But I don't know if there's anything that I wish I would have known going into college, I think just more awareness, perhaps about like this statistics, I know those statistics are really sobering, but just for people to know, you know, that they're not alone, and that it's never never your fault if it happens to you.

Chris Davis: 10:43

I have a question for both of you. Now that you've both been with the WCA for a little bit, you know, when we go out and we talk about in our break the cycle presentation, for example, we talk about the different types of domestic abuse, that are not the physical abuse, and we talked about, you know, checking the phone, and we talked about, you know, requiring text check ins and things like that, I think that I know, Grace, you and I have talked about that and Emily, you too, things like that, that your friends may not understand or your you know, peers. I want to talk to you about that, and to what you've seen over the last few years. And do you think coming to school, you understood that those things like that were really unhealthy and can be considered an intimate partner violence? What do you think about you know, your friends and your your classmates and things like that on campus, I wanted to just introduce and kind of have a conversation about those things. Because as we we know, just in general, people tend to think of domestic abuse, intimate partner violence as that with those physical concepts. But as you know now, it's, you know, forcing someone to have sex, checking in, checking their phone, controlling who they see, controlling money. I wanted to talk about that. What are your thoughts about the understanding of those, there's even that language, common language, on campuses, what do you think?

Grace Erbe: 12:03

I know, at least for me, I didn't really know much about any of that I didn't even know that verbal abuse was a considered form of abuse until like, a little bit over a year ago, when I started going to therapy. So I think it's really important to educate, you know, kids and young women about that type of abuse, because it's interesting when you are in a relationship where you see some of your friends and relationships and there's like that twinge of like "something's not right here but I don't know why," it's important to have that education, to be able to reach out for help or get them or whoever the resources that they need because you might not always know why you feel that something's wrong, if you have no idea what is happening.

Emily Dehmer: 12:45

Definitely. Yeah, I also wasn't really aware that there were other forms of abuse other than, you know, physical and sexual. And I think a lot of the times, whether it's something that society tells us or that we tell ourselves, it seems like people who have survived like emotional abuse, or any other non, you know, non-physical kind of abuse are made to feel like they're overreacting. And certainly survivors of physical violence are made to feel that too, but I feel like it's, it's especially true with emotional abuse and I think that's something that is probably lacking--it was from from my college curriculum--but probably common for a lot of other colleges. And, like Grace mentioned, it's important to have that awareness so that when you get that something's not right feeling that you can name it and make healthy choices regarding that relationship or friendship.

Cory Mikhals: 13:48

Absolutely. Now that college is back in session and more normal compared to last year when we had nothing normal at all; football is back in swing, and of course we always think of redzone as being you know, the 20 yards before scoring the touchdown or field gold or whatever the case, but when it comes to abuse, there is also a red zone as well. Would you like to describe that, Grace?

Grace Erbe: 14:22

I think what you're referring to is you know, the time between the start of the semester and Thanksgiving break when more than 50% of college sexual assaults statistically occur. And you know, I never knew that actually, until I started interning here I saw that in our training but it makes so much sense because you know, you come in as a freshman, you're basically fresh out of high school, you may not have the knowledge or the tools or resources to navigate these situations and it can be really scary as you know, an 18 year old just entering college and being thrown into situations you've never been in before and don't know how to navigate.

Cory Mikhals: 14:58

Well, and a lot of kids that are coming into college, maybe they're they're coming from another area so they don't instantly have that friend base that you get as you make your way through college or you know maybe if you started here, you grew up here, you know maybe there could be a handful of other friends, so you have that, but there's a lot of people that you know not only is college new, they don't have any of the things that they had before all the friends and and people to help make them the good choices along the way. Also, there's strength in numbers. You know when you go out and go do something, it's always better to have, you know, good friends along with you that are going to help you make those better choices and keep you from making the bad ones.

Grace Erbe: 15:53

Yeah, absolutely. I can definitely kind of speak from personal experience on that. I moved from California, I didn't know anybody here, I have no family in Boise, so the people that I met, you know, the first week of school were kind of the people that I was surrounding myself with and I didn't know them super well and it's kind of hard to trust people that you don't know to have your back in those types of situations. So, I definitely think that was hard, and I didn't really find my people in college about until six months in, so it was definitely difficult to feel like I had people to rely on and to lean on at that first kind of six months of school.

Cory Mikhals: 16:27

For both of you, what do you think when it comes to mom and dad or whatever parental figure happens to be in in a student's life -- what do you think we should do as as adults as parents, caregivers, to help to prepare our kids for college and for that experience, whether it's local or whether we're sending them off to a whole new place to take over the next chapter of their life?

Emily Dehmer: 17:00

Yeah, I think one thing that comes to the top of my head is to just start talking about consent young, you know, it doesn't it doesn't have to be regarding sex. I remember when i was like four, I always got really annoyed at my mom but, my brother my brother's only 16 months older than me, but we would tickle each other and you know one of us would yell "stop, stop" in the sense that it's like you know, "you can keep going" but my mom would always be like "stop means stop! Don't say "stop" if you don't want it to stop because yeah, you have to you know honor that." And that was just a way you know to bring up boundaries and consent when when kids are young really opens up that conversation. Another thing that I think is pretty common, I know my dad like before I went off to college bought me pepper spray all this sort of stuff which, you know, is great it's important to keep yourself safe but in talking, I'll just refer to it in gendered language, but, of course this this, isn't always the case. But, as as important as like protecting your daughter is to educate your son. You know, like it shouldn't always be young college students' job to defend themselves it should be it should be on the perpetrators also to know that what they're doing is wrong and to just you know, not do it. It's as simple as that, but it's a lot to ask for survivors to constantly need to be ready to like fight and if they don't fight that you know, it's their fault, and it just really it shouldn't have to be that hard. So I think that starting the conversations young, and having the same conversations you know, regardless of the gender of your child because it's important for everybody to know this information.

Cory Mikhals: 19:07

Absolutely. And you bring up a perfect point; as parents to a son, it is so important to raise a good man.

Emily Dehmer: 19:18

Right.

Cory Mikhals: 19:19

Raise a good man. You know, we teach them not to steal, we teach them, you know, our kids, not to do this and to do that. But it's equally as important to raise our boys, raise our girls, to be good individuals, to be respectful human beings. And raising good men, that is the biggest thing we can do as parents to our our sons. Now, so for Grace, what preparation do you think? You know, what advice would you give to parents to prepare their kids?

Grace Erbe: 20:02

I would say, just start talking about it and have open discussions. I know for me, with my parents, I always felt kind of embarrassed and uncomfortable bringing that stuff up. So bring it up to your kids, even if it does feel uncomfortable, even if you haven't had those conversations before, I don't, think you know, it's ever too late to start having them. And I kind of wish that my parents had to, you know, talk to me more about consent and you know, sex and all of those things. Because when you have the discomfort around it, I felt kind of like, ashamed and guilty about even talking about it with my parents, because that wasn't something that we ever discussed. And I know parents are people too, and have their own, you know, lives and stuff. But even if you don't have, don't think you have the education or the tools to talk to a kid, there's so many resources. So I would, encourage parents to educate themselves. And start having those conversations, even if you think you know, your kid's gonna be fine. You never know what's gonna happen. And it's great to give your kid the tools that they need, and send them off and know that, you know, they're going to be able to navigate those situations.

Chris Davis: 21:06

Grace, you bring up a really good point, because I as a parent, and we've talked about this on other episodes, Cory, but about having those difficult conversations, get in the car and drive. You know, you don't have to look at your kid if it's uncomfortable, but Grace is saying, talk to your kids. So parents, if it feels uncomfortable, you still need to talk to your kids because your kids may give you a little bit of a bad time, "oh mom, oh dad," but you need to talk to them because they want you to. So get in the car and drive and look forward. And don't look at your kid, but just start talking. And you don't have to say the words that make you feel uncomfortable. Start talking about things like consent, asking somebody to hold a hand, asking somebody for a hug, talk about boundaries, in terms of... it's okay to have boundaries in terms of what's acceptable, like social space, or talking about things that make you uncomfortable and even make light of the conversation you're having right at that point in time. Say, "this may make you feel a little uncomfortable right now, but it's important for us to have this so that you're safe and taken care of because I love you, and you deserve to be treated well." So Grace, has mic dropped it right now. We can end this right now. Because Grace, you've heard it right now, from our intern who's smart as a whip. You've heard it from Emily, talk to your kids, folks. And if you're getting ready to go to college, and you're you don't feel like your parents have had this conversation. I empower you, teens, pre-college kids and college kids, go sit your parents down and talk to them to and say this is really uncomfortable, but we need to have a conversation, Mom and Dad, because you know, the more conversations we have, the better prepared we're all going to be because we got to have more conversations because these sexual assaults and dating violence and intimate partner violence is happening on campuses at incredibly alarming rates. So we need to start having these conversations because Grace said so.

Cory Mikhals: 22:55

Okay, actually I have one final question. For both of you, Emily, I'm gonna start with you. What advice would you give to a new college student entering their collegiate years?

Emily Dehmer: 23:12

I think one thing that I would really stress is for people who are new to college, especially like young women, think--you know if you decide to party or you know, you have your own own boundaries, but--think of those boundaries beforehand, you know, like if you're deciding to go out, make a plan beforehand, you know, how many drinks you feel comfortable having, what you feel comfortable doing, and while you know everybody's nervous when you when you get to college, and you know, you meet new people, and it's easy to feel like, pressured into doing certain things, you know. I didn't drink at all my first year of college, and I know that's pretty abnormal. But, you know, my friends respected that. I wasn't in a place where I was comfortable doing that. And I think your boundaries and your limits are so important. And they absolutely deserve to be respected. So if you're around people who don't take that seriously, or make light of that, like it's time to get new friends because your safety is so important and your wellbeing and you deserve to be around people who who respect that and treat you with the love and care that you deserve.

Cory Mikhals: 24:34

Very well said. And Grace, what would be your advice?

Grace Erbe: 24:39

I would say I really agree with everything that Emily said, but yeah, be proactive. And I would say like, find a mentor. Find somebody you trust, a professor, you know, a counselor, whoever. And I think it's really important to bring that support around you whether it's a mentor, whether it's your best friend, whether it's you know, anybody on campus, there are so many people, if you're on a college campus, I guarantee you there are people there that want to help you, they get paid to help you and to talk to you about these issues. So don't be afraid to seek it out. It can be really easy to feel alone, even when you're surrounded by so many people. But you're not alone. And there are so many resources in places that will help you.

Cory Mikhals: 25:18

Wonderful, thank you so much. And for young men, if you're listening right now, if you are in a situation, and you are treating a young lady a certain way, think about if someone was treating your sister that way, if someone was treating your mother, exactly how you're acting right now, what would you do?

Chris Davis: 25:40

And that goes for anybody in any kind of relationship across gender expression.

Cory Mikhals: 25:44

Yes, I say young men, but you know.

Chris Davis: 25:47

Yeah, if anybody was treating somebody you love, because abuse happens in all kinds of relationships. And it is happening at a very alarming rates on college campuses, right here in our beautiful city. But right, Cory, like you said, a call to young men and women, because I've seen some young women behave atrociously, and if they were my young daughter, I would take them to task. So just as the same. So yeah, a call to parents talk to your kids about behaving respectfully. And if they're not caught, take them to task and have another talk with him, you can't always control how people behave, but you can try to establish some guidelines and talk to them and call them on the carpet when they're not. Because what we also hear from teens and even some early adult is they don't understand sometimes that what they're doing is abusive, they really don't sometimes, and so that is where if as adults in their lives, it is upon us to call them on it in a respectful manner, and try to help them understand where their behavior is unhealthy because sometimes it's not an effort to implement power and control and they can correct course.

Emily Dehmer: 27:02

A quick note that I would add to that too, just really, really hammering the message of parents to talk to your children is you know, if you don't talk to your kids, or the young people in your life about about these issues, or about, you know, abuse and consent and all that stuff, they're gonna learn it somewhere, and they might learn the wrong information. I've known too many people in my life who, you know, never had any talks about boundaries or, or safety and consent, or just the way they should act from their parents. And so you might learn the wrong things. And so it's it's important to have those conversations even if they're uncomfortable, because you know, it really it means so much not only to protect your your your child, but tto help provide the space for them to to really blossom into kind and caring and the wonderful adults that they are meant to be.

Cory Mikhals: 28:06

Grace, Emily, thank you so much for being on.

Grace Erbe: 28:10

Thanks for having us.

Chris Davis: 28:11

This has been really great.

Cory Mikhals: 28:13

And on behalf of Chris and everyone at the WCA, I'm Cory Mikhals and we look forward to talking again soon on the next episode of What Compassion Accomplishes.

Intro: 28:25

Thank you for listening to this episode of what compassion accomplishes. Again, if you or someone you know has experienced domestic abuse, dating or sexual violence, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or the WCA's 24-hour hotline 208-343-7025.